Assignment: Cryptonaut Multiplier Discussion

[RickyBobby]

After 2 months being away on course it’s awesome too be back! I am a little behind on things but I hope to add some value =)

Why do you think the current proposal is resulting in a split vote?
Please present all arguments for and against the current proposal you can think of. (If possible involve other Citizens on the discord in this discussion!)

Please make suggestions on how to structure a better proposal.

• I see the split as a difference in ideology between how much weight should be placed on the cryptonaughts. It is an amazing fundraising initiative but ultimately many people will not be able to afford T1 / T2 on ETH, and others be too put off/confused to partake in the AVAX T3 versions due to the learning curve.
• I recognize the benefits in making your cryptonaught more valuable through reward scaling, but it is to the detriment of many in the community who hold XIO, which is ultimately dividing opinion.

Going down the “so what” logic:

For:

• Increased buy pressure for naughts.
• Greater price appreciation for XIO.
• Greater exposure for XIO as a price appreciating asset.
• Feedback loop created.

Against:

• Disadvantageous for those who can’t afford/don’t want a cryptonaught.
• resentment created between cryptonaught holders and XIO holders.
• Divided community.
• Reduced XIO unity in the long term.

Better structure:

• Any structure that creates a divide will be bad for the community in the long term.

HOWEVER:

• If cryptonaught XIO is not able to be staked in the vortex then this could be re-framed. As there is now an imbalance between XIO utility in the NFT and through holding and staking XIO. This imbalance could be made even by a proposal whereby all cryptonaughts had 1.1X multipliers instead of tiered multipliers. Unless the expectations for tiered multipliers are set well in advance of a product launch, introducing them late will cause rifts in my opinion.

bonus:

What is your personal opinion on how to proceed with the current vote?
– Should the outcome be accepted no matter how tight the results?
– If accepted, should a follow up amendment vote be made pertaining to the exact percentage of the multipliers for all 3 tiers?
– Do you think more discussion will lead to a different (better) outcome?

I think the outcome is leaning heavily towards not passing now, which I think is the right outcome.

However, if XIO in cryptonaughts is not able to be staked, then this imbalance in utility needs to be addressed. I would propose that all Tiers of cryptonaught have the same multiplier to remedy this, which I would suggest is 1.1X and that this is put forward in a new vote to address the utility imbalance.

[Pseudotwit]

@cag

• there are approx 5k wallets holding XIO.
• The average XIO bag has roughly 10k XIO = 1800 USD = a bit more than 1/2 ETH.
• There are approx. 100 wallets that appear to own more than 10k XIO, LPs not included.

Citizens are probably a lot more, can we count liqudity providers? I think far more people are into the uniswap pool

@valeriu-costin

there might be a split vote because we have on one hand the cryptonauts buyers that would like an extra perk to their asset and on the other hand the citizens that are trying to protect their holdings by limiting the free XIO handed out.

Probably nft holders will win, simply because if you can afford a bz nft, you are rich and probably have way more xio tokens than than the rest of the small citizens

@gasser

XIO has always been handed out for free or tasks. Majority of people are only holding XIO which they got like that.

Yes, but with the nft I think the multipliers will bring a huge amount of “free” xio to their hodles… Maybe a bit too many tokens

@dshane

The current proposal is resulting in a split vote because there are long time hodlers of xio who cannot buy a cryptonaut presently and does not believe that the owners of the cryptonaut who just found out about xio should have more leverage over them.
It can also be said that persons

I don’t think it is something so “shallow”… You make it sound like long term are envious of the economic power of a potentially new citizens with more eth than him. I think longterm holders are just afraid of inflation

@gasser

There can not be any growth if we think newcomers will have advantage over us.

This is true. In fact there should be new incentives, but inflation affect old and new citizen in the same way. A negative way.

@M3nch_OogaVerse

NFT’s are both new and terrifying at the same time.

Well, terrifying sounds a tad too much, but I get what you mean…in fact, I am a bit scared of them myself, mainly because I think that the top tier nft are just a handful (10 I think). That means one thing: centralization, if such nft are given too many advantages…

[Pseudotwit]

@RickyBobby

Against:

• Disadvantageous for those who can’t afford/don’t want a cryptonaught.

This could be easy avoided by creating “free” cryptonauts giveaway for long term holders, long term XLP providers, active citizens, or there could simply be rewards for twitter campaigns and games

[gasser]

@valeriu-costin

Why the “citizen” ideal is not pushed forward?

I think it is a slippery slope, there are a lot of bad ideas too. But the right way to go will be DAO: Core>community discussion>vote.
And I have seen a lot of community ideas implemented, even the community members who are working with BZ now.
But I like the idea of Tier 0 and using it as the passport, there was discussion about making NFT passports, but I think it went in the back. There’s a lot going on in BZ, and some of the stuff is slower than others.

@valeriu-costin

NFTs will result in being more interested in the role of the NFTs in our ecosystem

NFT is/was flavour, I think next one will be SocialFi and we are having great opportunity here to do something. But again if we try to catch every thing the base idea of the project will be lost.
As you said, the main idea behind NFT was capital, extra perks are coming up later, which is a good thing.

@valeriu-costin

if the acceptance of the multiplier is the desired outcome by the proposing party

It might have worked, but the scenario without loading would still result in same vote, if people are feeling left out, I think its mostly from the suggested multiplier.

[gasser]

@valeriu-costin

more important to find a balance and not to favor one or the other

It could be argued that OGs are having benefit of XLP for really long time

@valeriu-costin

Is there a way that, technically one can stake his CN and be used as a liquidity provider?

I think strip finance is doing it by collateralising the NFT. I think we can achieve it with Flash protocol.

[gasser]

@M3nch_OogaVerse

NFT’s are either not fully understood/cared for or trusted by the older/ OG community members

Thats true, but it’s same with everything new, people jump into hype before understanding it. But I think majority of the people have quite good understanding.

@M3nch_OogaVerse

My personal experience to understand NFT’s in general has involved time and money

I’m in the same boat, learning and collecting from 2019 (Enjin). But that doesn’t necessarily means that we cannot come up with new utilities and ideas.

@M3nch_OogaVerse

Cryptonaut NFT’s provide risk to the project both ways

If NFT is burned it’s out of circulation and the XIO from the NFT will get same benefits as any other XIO holder. There’s benefit of holding NFT, future royalties: to keep it more attractive, there should be an advantage over just holding XIO and less over XLP to protect the liquidity. It’s hard to find the balance but not impossible.

[gasser]

@RickyBobby

others be too put off/confused to partake in the AVAX T3 versions due to the learning curve.

I would give citizens benefit of doubt, most are with the project for some time and participated in different testnet competitions, which requires some basic knowledge.

@RickyBobby

Disadvantageous for those who can’t afford/don’t want a cryptonaught.

If one doesn’t want the cryptonaut; should not be bothered by the perks it’s getting. If can’t afford is the case, there are some good ideas here to overcome that. Like passport NFT with added benefits.

@Pseudotwit

Yes, but with the nft I think the multipliers will bring a huge amount of “free” xio to their hodles… Maybe a bit too many tokens

I agree with that, but there will be some sort of trade-off.

@Pseudotwit

I don’t think it is something so “shallow”

I whole heartedly agree to that.

@Pseudotwit

inflation affect old and new citizen in the same way. A negative way.

I think people are not getting that, but its same in every aspect majority of people besides BZ do not understand inflation.

[valeriu-costin]

@M3nch_OogaVerse

Keep the multipliers but they should only be applied to governance.

Welcome, always nice to see new people participating and adding value to the Crew.

I would like to see more in-depth thought regarding the above statement, since, in my opinion is kind of contradicting your No.3 .

if we agree that Cryptonauts (NFTs in general) are bringing newcomers in the ecosystem, and we don’t really know their long term intentions … how can we give them more weight in the DAO?

@RickyBobby

I see the split as a difference in ideology between how much weight should be placed on the cryptonaughts. It is an amazing fundraising initiative but ultimately many people will not be able to afford T1 / T2 on ETH, and others be too put off/confused to partake in the AVAX T3 versions due to the learning curve.

Nice to see u back…

i was thinking about this as well. New idea brought to life… clearly the intention was the fundraising… but i think, based on the hype created in the community around it, The Council/Core decided to shift it, and then the time for implementation was not enough to have proper consultations.
The art deserves the hype … imo these are the top of the NFT’s , but the story behind them seems a bit rushed because:

• no consideration for an already long discussed idea (nft passports)
• T1 and T2 ( percentage wise not enough to serve the majority of the community, thus high prices
• T3 implementation on a new platform… we already discussed many times to shift to Avax … and is great that we started … but as you said, left a lot of people confused.

again, i’m making the above remarks only because i think CN’s purpose shifted from just a fundraising bit … to a community hype.

@Pseudotwit

Yes, but with the nft I think the multipliers will bring a huge amount of “free” xio to their hodles… Maybe a bit too many tokens

i don’t think is that much of “free” XIO … taking in consideration that a T3 with 2500 XIO load is costing 6 Avax / 3500 XIO

@Pseudotwit

This could be easy avoided by creating “free” cryptonauts giveaway for long term holders, long term XLP providers, active citizens, or there could simply be rewards for twitter campaigns and games

with the imminent Avalanch integration the XLP providers will have anyway a difficult challenge… i think this might be a new subject for a good assignment

@gasser

It might have worked, but the scenario without loading would still result in same vote, if people are feeling left out, I think its mostly from the suggested multiplier.

in this case, you do the T0 passport(nobody will feel left out)… after it’s rolled out… you propose a vote for loading it up … after is done … you propose a vote for a multiplier for all 4 tiers.

@gasser

It could be argued that OGs are having benefit of XLP for really long time

it can be… but is it a valid argument? … the whole idea behind a reward is the value added and risk taken.

@gasser

I think strip finance is doing it by collateralising the NFT. I think we can achieve it with Flash protocol.

this would be great … maybe we can create an environment where IL would be negligible.

[gasser]

@valeriu-costin

and we don’t really know their long term intentions … how can we give them more weight in the DAO?

I would be interested in knowing about cryptonaut’s holders, how many pre-exsisting XIO holders bought them and how many new-comers we are having .
On that note we can’t guarantee anyone’s intentions long or short term, in the end majority of people are in it for profit. There are those who believe that BZ will be top 100 or top 10 someday and they are holding long term, accumulating along the way, and there are those who get in for quick buck or extra perks.
But to reach that point we will have to compromise on somethings and share our pie.

@valeriu-costin

it can be… but is it a valid argument? … the whole idea behind a reward is the value added and risk taken.

There’s risk in buying T1 or T2 also, the right example will be the price of T3; you mentioned its 6 Avax /3500 XIO, in my opinion that is a risk. What if the price of XIO remains same or doesn’t increase as compared to Eth price price in future?
We can argue on both sides, but I think the way forward is to find a solution like BZ passport NFT or something similar.

[valeriu-costin]

@gasser

I would be interested in knowing about cryptonaut’s holders, how many pre-exsisting XIO holders bought them and how many new-comers we are having

this would be really interesting to analyze … my guess is that atm are not much newcomers.
and then, the argument that XIO hodlers are afraid of newcomers will not be valid.

I think is just a numbers game…
btw if you look at the voting, you’ll see that the aroxx 3.6mil difference is due to a NO vote casted by:

• a 2mil holder,
• 2 holders of 500k or more
• and a Core Member …

so i don’t even think this was a decision taken by the majority of people, but by some of the big holders who can afford, and most probably bought/or will buy a CN.

[cag]

@valeriu-costin

As in your example Tier0 could be used like a passport.

We can follow up on this idea as a

The idea of a cryptonaut tier 0 as a passport to be gifted to all new joiners would be awesome. I see the process as following:

1. Once one becomes a citizen they are dropped a cryptonaut with 0-100 XIO locked in. This could be instead of giving them away for free as it happens now. The value could be tied to the onboarding reward that is in place. Now it is 100 XIO, If XIO reaches 100usd it might be 0.2
2. The drop happens once a month in dropzero, in order to save on fees. Don’t know if it is possible, though.
3. Citizens claim them and decide what to do with them: Break or power up.
4. This can lead to getting more people interested in NFT and starting to educate themselves on what they imply and what they could be used for. I think this is also one of the main advantages of BZ: determining people to dive deeper in topics they would otherwise casually pass by.

I think there is something missing from your last comment

@Pseudotwit

Citizens are probably a lot more, can we count liqudity providers? I think far more people are into the uniswap pool

At the moment there are roughly 500 wallets holding XIO/ETH LP tokens. I might be wrong but i believe most of them have at least some XIO in their wallets as well. Even if we believe that each LP has more than 10K XIO, which can be verified, “a lot more” could be not that much more.

[gasser]

@valeriu-costin

i don’t even think this was a decision taken by the majority of people,

to resolve that, we need active community to vote. If people are not voting then the a single vote from a large holder can swing the vote easily.
Hopefully we can see the holders of cryptonauts on bz.to and try to figure it out.

[dshane]

@M3nch_OogaVerse

Keep the multipliers but they should only be applied to governance. I think the multipliers for earnings should be put to those in the DeFi component of BZ as this would even out both governance and rewards earned through APY. This would incentivize profits to be recirculated back in BZ for higher earning potential and voting rights, with hopefully less liquidity leaving.

This is a very interesting answer this sounds even more fair, so far the sentiment im getting is that most persons dont want cryptonaut owners to be earning more tokens than them in relation to just holding xio. But some how i think tier 1 and tier 2 should get some additional benefit because of the risk they made with there eth, i mean they could have provided liquidity just the same.

[dshane]

@Pseudotwit

I don’t think it is something so “shallow”… You make it sound like long term are envious of the economic power of a potentially new citizens with more eth than him. I think longterm holders are just afraid of inflation

No they are not envious (but i cant speak for them), its just short term thinking, i believe cryptonaut holders should have some form of compensation and the multiplier suggested is not bad, i was just simply answering the question put to us.

[cag]

@M3nch_OogaVerse

Keep the multipliers but they should only be applied to governance.

Some food for thought: If I have the power to influence the decision whether nfts should have earning multipliers or not, and I am against it, why would I be in favour allowing some of that power to be transferred to the same nfts?

[gasser]

@cag

why would I be in favour allowing some of that power to be transferred to the same nfts?

You will, if you buy it or if you hold good amount of XIO and think that it will help the project in long run. You could also do it in order to keep those holders attracted to the project with some kind of extra perks, seeing how much they risked.

[gasser]

@dshane

i mean they could have provided liquidity just the same.

I agree with that, but since vote is over and the proposal was rejected, there should be some other proposal now, something other than multiplier. Or drop NFTs to all citizens and have the vote again.

[cag]

@gasser

seeing how much they risked.

maybe the wording was not clear: if am am not exposed to cryptonauts and i am against them having earning multiplier, why would I allow my voting power to be diminished in in order to allow the ones which have nfts to have more voting power, which would allow them to easier gain whatever benefits they want for their nfts?

How was their risk higher than the one taken by the regular holder? They have one nft loaded with a lot of tokens that they have access to whenever they want, provided they break it. The only risk taken is the tone to buy into the project, but this is valid for all which hold XIO in one way or another.

[gasser]

@cag

if am am not exposed to cryptonauts and i am against them having earning multiplier

So it means if you are not having it, no one can jk I agree with the sentiments.Their risk is same as ours, betting on XIO instead of ETH they are buying the NFT with.
So the is baseline that there is no winning, unless there’s NFT dropped to every citizen or BZ goes against the vote and do it anyways.
In retrospect, the sentiment is very clear and almost everyone here is having similar opinion.

[cag]

@gasser

So it means if you are not having it, no one can jk I agree with the sentiments.Their risk is same as ours, betting on XIO instead of ETH they are buying the NFT with.

I am not saying this because i don’t own a cryptonaut, tier 3 is much more affordable. I am just trying to make some mental stretching and think why would I be against the proposal.
My thought was the opposite , if one cannot have it let them all have something. I am not advocating equality I am advocating creating the tools which allow the possibility of reaching that equality.